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20/06/2013 at 16:57

When we decimated the ivy growing up the apple tree, we found the remnants of what must be a very old rose.  There were 2 eight feet tall vertical runners with just a few leaves on top where it had reached the light; these were growing from a stump with four or five main branches off it.  The stump (which is probably10 inches in diameter) had been ground down AND burned at some stage.  Anyway, I cut the long runners off and now have this:-

http://s4.gardenersworld.com/uploads/images/original/25887.jpg?width=288&height=350&mode=max

 Sorry this is on its side, I don't know why.  The picture does not show its thorns in full glory, suffice it to say that you need full body armour to go anywhere near it. My romantic notion that a bit of cutting back would produce something lovely was clearly flawed.  So my questions are - do you think it will produce any sort of flowers at all, and is there any way of rescuing it?  If not, how on earth am I going to get rid of it - it is frankly lethal and clearly somebody had gone to great lengths to try and murder it previously, so it's obviously a survivor and resentful to boot!

20/06/2013 at 17:23

If its got buds on I would wait and see if I like the flower.  It is probable that they are all suckers growing from the rootstock, in which case you will get a wild type flower  like a dog rose.. In that case , exterminate.  Large spade, strong back and plenty of digging.  If necessary get a fit  young male to do the hard work. Worth spending some money to save your back.

20/06/2013 at 17:30

No buds yet, but seven leaves instead of 5. The rootstock is gigantic and, sod's law, very close to a peony so a bit concerned about digging it although it seems to be impervious to other maltreatment. 

20/06/2013 at 18:02

Sounds like a dog rose rootstock. keep cutting it down as low as you can. Eventually it will run out of steam and die. Paint the stump with SBK brushwood killer.

When its dead it will eventually rot and you should not have to disturnb the peony.

20/06/2013 at 19:10

This SBK sounds wonderful, I have been recommended it for the next acre of ivy too.  So a full suit of armour, a chainsaw and a tanker of SBK are all I need, dog rose no more!

20/06/2013 at 19:12

Don't forget the fit young male for the heavy work. You've seen the diet coke ad havn't you?

20/06/2013 at 19:23

Fidgetbones that made me laugh!! I actually wanted to ask about a 'rose' too.. inherited what i thought was a rambler poss climber growing through a climbong hydrangea, gave it a fair prune in march,loads of new groth but no buds at all, no thorns either, grows in a kind of candelabra  style, has anyone any idea what this could be? shall i just get rid in winter? Our garden is tiny, can't afford space wasters!

20/06/2013 at 19:32

Louise, if it is a rambler you might not get any flowers this year as most of them flower on wood formed in earlier seasons  so pruning should be done after flowering - pruning it this spring will have pruned off the flowering wood.  If it is a rambler you might not find out which one until next summer 

Sara, that foliage reminds me of Mermaid http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?=620 a glorious rose - it would be worth waiting to see 

20/06/2013 at 19:35

thanks dovefromabove,it's got a second chance...

20/06/2013 at 20:39

I should be so lucky Dove (mind you, I should be so lucky Fidget bones! ).  It has seven leaves (leaflets?) on its ? big leaves what on earth are bits of rose called? and I thought more than 5 meant it was evil full stop.  The new growth is exceptionally glossy though - I don't know if it was 'almost evergreen'  because it didn't have any leaves until I cut the ivy down.  I'm more than happy to live with its nasty spikiness if it's pretty, which Mermaid certainly is; should I still cut it right back (again) and see if it comes true, or leave it and see what happens?

23/06/2013 at 18:06

dovefromabove, re aforementioined 'rose'i've been out looking and even the high shoots i couldn't reach have no buds, there are also 3 puny 'roses' swamped by geraniums in our front garden (that's next year's project wanted to see what we'd inherited...a lot  vbut a mess!))...that have no buds,new growth but no sign of flowers, could they all not be roses at all?

24/06/2013 at 06:32

Louise, why don't you take some pictures and start a new thread, asking if anyone can identify what you've got - maybe as you say, they aren't roses at all? 

24/06/2013 at 06:39
Sara 4 wrote (see)

I should be so lucky Dove (mind you, I should be so lucky Fidget bones! ).  It has seven leaves (leaflets?) on its ? big leaves what on earth are bits of rose called? and I thought more than 5 meant it was evil full stop.  The new growth is exceptionally glossy though - I don't know if it was 'almost evergreen'  because it didn't have any leaves until I cut the ivy down.  I'm more than happy to live with its nasty spikiness if it's pretty, which Mermaid certainly is; should I still cut it right back (again) and see if it comes true, or leave it and see what happens?

"More than five leaflets is bad" is only applicable to Hybrid Teas as it would indicate that the growth comes from the rootstock rather than above the graft.

There are loads of other types - ramblers and lots of species roses that have more than five leaflets - my dear mother in law dug out and scrapped the most glorious Rosa glauca the year after father in law died as she thought it was a sucker (she wasn't really a gardener, it had been his garden and she'd not noticed that fantastic rose in the corner fo the garden).  I didn't have the heart to tell her what she'd done. 

Don't cut it back - see if it flowers next summer on the wood it's growing now.  Then you can decide what you want to do with it long-term 

24/06/2013 at 17:13

I have believed that fallacy all my gardening life, Dove so I will now leave all the roses and see if they flower.  That myth has probably led to the death of a million good roses (including your Mum in law's) so I am very happy to stand corrected!

30/06/2013 at 23:15

I have just read the replies on the Isbahan rose, which this killer queen obviously isn't, but I wondered if my rose would benefit from similar treatment?  Because I hacked it down so hard, all the stems are growing straight upward (and very vigorously) - should I perhaps prune a bit of the ends to ask them to branch? Or would bending the shoots down help as suggested with the Isbahan?  Or should I leave the poor thing well alone?

01/07/2013 at 00:14

Sara if it does turn out to be a baddy the best way to remove it without damaging your tree is slowly!

Dig around the roots with a fork. Once you have uncovered a root that you cannot pull  cut with a good strong pair of loppers. Do this all around the root ball until the centre can be pulled away. Then deal with each root left in the ground. Time consuming but the only way to do it without damage. 

01/07/2013 at 00:30

I am praying to whatever positive force Dove from above gets her positive approach from that it turn out to be a maltreated goodie.  I don't mind if it's a dog rose if it has flowers and will consider growing in some direction except skyward, but should the day ever come when it needs removal in toto I will follow your instructions....

01/07/2013 at 05:39

Bending the branches and pinning them down while they're young and flexible may well be a good idea Sara - it should encourage side-shoots to grow, and they're the ones that will flower, so why not give it a go? 

01/07/2013 at 19:07

I think I'll give it a go when suitably attired (armour plate) - I only have my limbs to lose!  The thorns on this really are something special!

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