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...thank you for the information about your hat..... I thought as much...

you're modesty knows no bounds Keen... but it was bold of you to post a photo.. I doubt many of us are likely to follow suit...

Hi Salino. Well it was of course just for a little digression - a giggle but sadly like all my attemps at humour it fell flat on its face. I only sent the pic as being of the supposed plant my missus thought was a pest in the garden. No harm done and basically the pic  "puts me up"  - I ain't no oil painting  nor would want to be - but oh  what a sweet nature I have  --- sorry.   Regards.

Hi Berghill. Thanks for that - I should have used the word intrigued instead of bothered.  Was interested to know why you had so many plants which you were seemingl not happy with (their habits) and how that came about. All is explained . Ref the botanist bit well from your comments I got the impression that you are obviously very choosy and discerning and only those which suited you entirely were allowed a good report or placein your plot. Deadheading is a bind especially when there is always so many other things to do all the time. I usuually lose patience with the clumpy things and put the shears over them - rightly or wrongly. Best wishes to you and thanks again.


And don't forget that what self seeds here may not do it elsewhere. Some of the plants we grow here, came with us from our previous garden where they were perfect gentlefolks, staying within their alloted space and never producing a seedling. We planted them here and WHAM!

Some of the self seeding stuff is very welcome, Pulsatilla vulgaris for example and Cyclamen hederifolium and coum (lawn weeds here).

Let's face it no Nursery  is going to label a plant a 'thug' when they are trying to sell it.  The most you get is "runs gently where suited' which is how they would probably describe Ground elder.

So far I have only mentioned seed weeds, should I move on to the spreaders?

Hi all. Talking of botanists I have read a book which shows a very discerning plantsman ( botanist) and found it very interesting with much good info. Called  "A Botanists Garden"  - author John Raven.

 Now back to plants.    Another Euphorbia and this one  is called Euphorbia Robbiae  - Wood Spurge -  or Mrs. Robbs Bonnet.. Given the conditions it likes ( and it was not as I recall overly fussy with me) it spreads quite rapidly. Darkish green foliage and typical spurge flowers, also poisonous in all its parts and with that caustic latex. I finally dug it all up.   I read just a little story about this plant and how it came into this Country  -  it said  Mrs. Robb saw it growing -  took a bit, put it in her handbag to bring home -  from where and when I do  not know but it suggests (if true) that it was in a place where plants were not allowed taken out  -  China perhaps?


Hi Berghill. Ref the spreaders yes please do -  will be of interest to all. Even allowing for what is agreed that in one place a plant can be an angel and in another a thug theres a cautionary note to it all and it opens eyes to possible problems if planted - a stitch in time perhaps?.

Keen 1 wrote (see)

Hi Salino. Well it was of course just for a little digression - a giggle but sadly like all my attemps at humour it fell flat on its face. I only sent the pic as being of the supposed plant my missus thought was a pest in the garden. No harm done and basically the pic  "puts me up"  - I ain't no oil painting  nor would want to be - but oh  what a sweet nature I have  --- sorry.   Regards.

... oh no need to apologise... I'm sure some of us could see the humourous intent...I certainly found it quite amusing...I mean, you're obviously a born leader in these things and it's a fun thing to do....and throws caution to the wind... I expect you had your fair share of admirers when younger...

incidentally, I work in retail and see plenty of real 'shockers' any day of the week, and rather more of them than I care to... much as I love Lavender 'Hidcote' and it's looking splendid at the moment... it does seed and if it's planted next to a road, as mine is... some of those seedlings will rather embarrassingly pop up in cracks.... I could grow hundreds of these plants from the seedlings every year... which is why so many of these that we buy can vary..being seed raised...

Helleborus argutifolius, another favourite will do the same if not dead headed....they'll be all over the place...I find this a majestic plant really...wonder if anyone else does... 

Hi Salino. Thanks for that and glad you saw a little humour in it all. This will make you smile. I  always did like and respect the gals - that was all those years ago and still now. Anyay ref me looks well I have had quite a few "bangs" over the years which ain't helped.them but I did have a lass once tell me I was "beautifully ugly" - what do you  make of that ?. Nuff said.          Back to plants.   Like yourself I have always found Hellebores to be free seeders and this particularly applies to the native Foetidus and also Corsicus. This  I especially like though do not have a plant at the moment    Speaking of that  native Hellebore it grows in quite large clumps in the woods next door which is nice - they look great crowded together and especially when in flower. Lavenderf I have a few plants in a dry hot corner and think they are Munstead variety with the darker flowers - is that so?.


...always thought Munstead was more pinkish... my Hidcote's are very dark blue...

...''beautifully ugly''...a glorious contradiction....but it's all those 'bangs' I'm worried about most've been enjoying yourself far too much Sir...


Forgot about Hellebores, yes they do self seed, but as long as I can get them to flowering size they, sell well so I am not complaining. Ditto the blue form of Platycodon, but strangely not the pink form.

Also should mention Aconitums, they tend to seed if not dead headed.

I have the Book A Botanists Garden on my bookshelves. Very interesting reading.

Spreaders, in this garden with its rich silty peat soil, Lysimachia Firecracker (given as a nice clump forming plant, hah!) L. nummularia. Euphorbia charcias and various other ones where the name has long since gone. Anemone japonica........ Galega officinalis in all its forms. Veronica peduncularis Georgia Blue. Pratia pedunculata. for starters.


Hi Berghill. Firstly glad you also enjoy that book - read it times over - now he was really selective.  Platycodons I love and although I have none now I had pink,white and blue in last garden. Aconitums I was always for some reason a little bit "frite" of because I believe they are really really poisonous and did not want to risk them on the plot.      You mentioned earlier St Bernards Lily - Anthericum liliago I think  - it has a brother St Brunos Lily  A.liliastrum  which I read has  better/bigger flowers never had this but still have some St. Bernards which I like. have some of the Bernards now. Most of this others or varieties thereof I have had and still have a sneaking liking for the Gold Creeping Jenny but as you say it does travel though at least you can see it.

 How I envy you your soil - I can see why everything ( or nearly) grows and sets seeds so readily on  your plot.   My soil is 50%sand and to make matters worse this is the dryest corner of England we live in.    Just as a matter of interest what is your general garden reading - do you like to look into plants history/legend/myth etc?.

Hi Salino. Do you know this PC of mine has a mind of its own - I just did before rplying to Berghill reply to you and its just vanished. Will try to reproduce similar text.           Ref those "bangs" -  I was not referring to "those" bangs ( though they possibly did not help - dare not explain) but to those "bangs" in which one has a mishap or disagreement and ones outlines are altered a little.  Hope we are on the same wavelength here regarding our interpretation of "bangs"?.    Seems I have me Lavenders all mixed up and sounds like mine are the same as yours - Hidcote.   Have a few plants in a dry hot corner  with Rue, Salvia sclarea, Curry plant (not to your liking) and a few other "drys". Love to pick-crush-smell as with the Herbs in the garden. Speaking of which i have a nice Bay in the front about 8 feet tall and 3-4 feet diameter which I clip at appropriate times - enjoy that for the scent.

Salino dear Keen, we are in a muddle...I was aware of which 'bangs' you were referring to, but this time my attempt at humour obviously got a bit lost on the way there...

...tongue in cheek, and all that... are my Lavender 'Hidcote' bushes on the left here... I love them, they flower for so long and one of my neighbour's insists on the dried flowers for arrangements when I cut them back...which is all nice..




...I should add, I haven't grown Rue for a long time but used to like it very much...the others you mention I've not grown I don't think....isn't gardening wonderful...


More mistakes by me than just thugs  Thought I could control them. Live and learn...A "mile a minute vine"....ended up growing in my roof!

Put "mind ur own business" round my pond, it looked so lush and green and mossy like, spent the next ten years trying to get rid of it!

Loved listening to the "pop!" of the seeds exploding from my 5 planted Euphorbia characias. Knew I should deadhead but thought I would actually like a few more....could have supplied every nursery in the vicinity with them the following year. 

Sweet violets, the worst!!!!!! So pretty, edible too. Thought could keep them confined to top wildish patch. Their seed heads explode too!!! Got into my alpine garden  Had to dig out alpines, extract violets...roots so deep and resistant to pulling for such a dainty looking plant...replant and re-grit. Took forever! 

BTW Bice to see you Keen  Why is everyone so shy on this forum? Most I've been on post pics of themselves straightaway. Only reason I haven't is I don't have a recent one of me to post.



I did not even have my photo taken at any of our childrens; weddings. I think the lat one I have of me is from ours. Tried to avoid that one too!

Books? When I tell you I have 16 metres of shelving with Gardening books you might guess that I like reading about plants even more than growing them.

Wild violets are the bugbane of our life. They appear everywhere and since thay are all up and down the Lane there is not much chance of getting rid either.

Soil, we used to garden on a south facing sand dune. When I needed sand for concrete, I dug it out of the garden!

Water, we are in the rain shadow of the hills so we get about half the national average amount of rain. Rain aprroaches and one thinks Great, and then it stops about 100 metres away. Been known to walk down our Lane in sun and get soaked a few hundred metres down the road.

We are also in a Frost pocket so we have had frost in July and early September. Notice I never mention my absolute favourites Dahlias? Cannot grow them ,they die of cold long before they flower.

Another spreading one for us, Marjoram. Oh and Lemon Balm, don't even like the smell of that stuff.

Hi Berghill. So your set up not as good as I thought. Well never mind because we are as gardeners very versatile and famous for making the best of whatever situation crops up on our plot weatherwise or whatever. - so be it for you and so be it for me and all of us - we will overcome!. Good to see that you are a great reader and lets face it from this comes much knowledge added to our own actual experiences and even fumblings. I do believe however whilst looking seriously at what they say we must not be confounded or overawed by writers and "experts" be they actual or imagined - we must give things a try whatever I feel -  "know alls" of course  to be always given a wide berth as far as I am concerned. I am as previously stated a great disciple of Margery Fish and ask you have you read any of her books? - if not may I seriously suggest you have a look at them since they may well appeal to you being a great reader. I have enjoyed them all my gardening life and have derived great benefit from them - 56 years in my case - understand if taboo but may I ask how about yourself - how long have you been at it.    Its very nice to be nattering to you - conversation rather than chat which ain't my thing. Regartds.

Hi addict. You are an honest gardener - quite prepared to admit to mistakes which goodness knows all of have made aplenty during our gardening lives.  You have that great interest and obviously above your already probably considerable knowledge the adaptability to learn more. You enjoy and best wishes to you. Incidentally those wild Violets are given free rein on my plot and for sure they are everywhere but are easily plucked out as and when. Regards.

Hi Salino. I was following you (I hoped) ref the "bangs"  - "those" bangs I referred to coincide with what I thought you meant - not  the smack in the gob. type.  Ain't it a bind we cannot explain to each other what we are getting at on site like this. I am sure we both know what we are getting at so lets have a little giggle between  ourselves.. If we go on about this our minds will become "over boggled".mnever mind banged..

Hi all. Now another plant which seeds very badly but is one I honestly feel I could not have a garden without - will try to explain.   I am referring here to the common native biennial evening Primrose - Oenothera biennis..    This is another of those plants which just appeared in my garden many years ago (50's) and has stayed with me by seeding itself about ever since - as stated they get everywhere.- it has followed me from my first propertyy to this my third. I have always found they come in two types - either a small flowered one - 1 inch across flowers ot a bigger 2 in across one. After flowering they set a length of seed pods up the stems which duly open and spread.  They are I find no trouble in that they are easil recognised and removed  - this I do and always leave a selection (pot luck) to develop and flower during that year. Now heres that wonderful thing ( bonus) as i see it. The plants having grown during the year to flowering size (3 to 5 ft)  and with a good head of flower buds  - the bigger ones easily noted .  One can on a nice hot sunny summer evening stand and watch these flower buds "twitch" open from bud to full size in jerky movements.    A sight to see I think - nature actually at work. The flowers have a nice subtle scent as well. If you do have this plant in the garden do give it a go - you will be as I always have been enthralled.