what are these?

These two plants are popping up in various places in my garden. Can anyone tell me what they are?

They look a bit like sweet williams, do you have any in your garden that may have self seeded?

Hi Kate. There was one small sweet William in the garden when we moved in 6 years ago. It flowered for two years then disappeared. Could the seeds have lain dormant for so long?

6 years is a long time, do any neighbours have them?

Lorea-my guesses are usually wrong-but-could the second be a penstemon?

-if not it looks suspiciously like a weed that my neighbour seems to cultivate,but I don't know the name

It could be rosebay willow herb, self seeds everywhere

Hmmm, interesting suggestions. I suppose I could wait until it flowers and then get back to you!

Not sure of first but second is pensteman.

Don't think 1st is willow bay herb. It has a reddish stem and leaves are different shape.

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I'm with Muddyfork, we've a shed load that pop up every year at my Grannys!

There's never been any penstemon in the garden as far as I know. There's definitely more of the first one than the second. I'd just like to be sure before I ruthlessly rip it all out that I'm not getting rid of something I might like.

Hi figrat, I garden in a rural area, and there are lots of things in the garden which I've seen in the surrounding countryside. I haven't seen any valerian though. Will gladly pull one up this weekend and take a photo of the root.

top pic is Phlox bottom pic sweet william (i think) lol

Not sure either is Penstemon, leaf shape looks entirely different from mine, could be wrong though!

I think the plant on this thread from this morning

http://www.gardenersworld.com/forum/plants/is-this-a-weed/2984.html

is a sweet william-having now looked again at Loreas picture they seem so similar that perhaps Kate is right with the original id-but keep that quiet

I saw that too Geoff, and thought the same thing. I'm pretty sure it is sweet william, and I'm beginning to think that the first one is willow herb as muddyfork says, although I'd prefer it to be phlox!

she will want the prize.

I think the first plant is a willowherb but not the Rosebay willowherb.  There are lots of different sorts.  Broad leaved comes to mind.  You'll know better when it flowers.  Don't want to make a guess at all at the second one. Yet.

Sue

hi lorea i'm almost certain that the plant youare looking at is Hesperis Matronalis or sweet rocket as my dear old Mum used to call it i have a garden full of it