London (change)
03/07/2014 at 23:12

Maybe the world needs effective contraception to keep populations down. Killing all the wildlife and specifically all the bees,will lead to reduced food production, not more.

03/07/2014 at 23:20

Why not propose that the developed nations such as ours provide a lead and eat less instead ? Why pass the problem to others to solve?  Malthus, in the 19th century, wrote that the world could not sustain the then world population ,vastly smaller than it is now. Man's intelligence in finding solutions to it's problems has filled the gap, and it is there that we must seek our solutions, not wishful thinking. If we don't find ways of increasing food production, starvation and death will control population levels. 

Are you saying that if we can persuade the others to limit their populations we can have the luxury of eating organics because we feel they may be good for we, rich folks?

03/07/2014 at 23:32

Oooh this is all a bit deep and meaningful and mentally challenging for a tired Tracey after half a bottle of wine (not organic ), I think I'll just sit on the fence......again 

03/07/2014 at 23:33

I think that traditionally,in countries with high infant mortality rates,and no welfare payments, the way around it was to have lots of children, so that parents had a chance of someone to look after them in their old age. With vaccines and antibiotics, infant mortality rates have reduced,giving an increased population with no more food, hence starvation and charities like Oxfam providing food. I agree that an expanding population is unsustainable, but gm products like corn and the high fructose corn syrup lead to increased obesity not less. Saying that the poor in this country cannot afford fruit and veg is not true. If they have money for cigarettes, mobile phones and sky tv, it's not a lack of money that is the problem.

03/07/2014 at 23:38

I agree totally with that last statement FB, unfortunately too many people think it is a right to have those things and not something you should have to earn!!  We are by no means poor, we both have good jobs (at the moment) but because we are looking at huge changes with my OH, this will affect finances and we are now on a very strict budget, we have cut wine and treats right back......tonight was the first bottle of wine all week and OH has reduced the Sky package to save money. Unfortunately not everyone thinks like that. I even got questioned about buying a bag of seed compost and grit, I had to explain that a friend from GW sent me sees that I had to sow 

03/07/2014 at 23:51

Organic food ventures seem to be struggling.  Our local organic farm has closed. There is less and less available in my local supermarkets, and box schemes pop up and fail almost immediately. At a large farm shop in Devon, which i visited last week there were almost no organic fruit and vegetables for sale, despite this being an obvious candidate, The fruit and vegetables manager told me that organics have such a short shelf life they preferred to sell "normal" produce. Organics lose them money.

Please someone, explain to me how organic produce promotes the welfare of mankind. Why is demand falling?

04/07/2014 at 00:12

Demand is falling because people are short of money and choose cheaper alternatives. Growing your own can save money. Pesticides are expensive and many people prefer not to use them. With oil becoming more expensive, the mileage that food travels is also important. Should I eat organic beans grown in my own garden, or imported non organic snap peas flown in from Kenya? Surely home production is better? My bees would also prefer me not to use pesticide sprays. No bees equals no beans or peas.

04/07/2014 at 00:21

But producing enough food for the world's billions will require pesticides, fertilisers and the mass production of food, where it makes sense to do so, requiring long distance transportation. Micro production for yourself ( I do it) is not the issue, or the solution. If we all were allocated enough land to be self sufficient on organic lines, we would need several planets.

04/07/2014 at 06:24

If the people of Africa could grow food for their own consumption, rather than intensive flowers and vegetables to be exported to Europe to pay for their countries' trade deficit, acquired by them buying weapons that the west tells them they need in order to maintain the status quo which was imposed on them in colonial times, they would be more able to feed themselves. 


Whoops!  Good morning folks   Another beautiful morning here in Norfolk!

It looks as if we had hoglets in the garden last night - much smaller 'evidence' on the terrace 

The magpies were so cheeky first thing this morning, they stood at the open door and shouted at me until I tipped out the bits and pieces the hedgehogs hadn't eaten - that's their treat every morning. 

Now there's some very angry blackbirds in next door's garden, shouting the odds - probably at next door's cat!

04/07/2014 at 06:33

Leaving history and politics aside, my point is that the world's population is of a certain size , is growing, with rising expectations, and needs feeding. We have to find ways of growing more food, more efficiently, distributed more efficiently.....and that organic food production has lower yields, and therefore does not offer any answers to this major problem.

04/07/2014 at 06:50

I think the organic -v- non organic question probably deserves a thread of it's own 

04/07/2014 at 06:53

Agreed, but I think I will go outside and do a bit of weeding instead. Thanks Dove for the exit route. As they say never talk about religion, politics and sex with good friends. 

 good morning everyone, belatedly.

04/07/2014 at 06:55

Good morning Woody  , if you'd like to get the hoe out on my front border you're very welcome 

04/07/2014 at 06:56

Morning Dove, Morning Woody (is it ok to call you that?) Yes, Dove, having read all that I was about to launch in with my pennythworth.  But as you say, for another time/ thread!  Passionate topic!

04/07/2014 at 06:58

Morning all - important points to ponder on this morning.  Problems are huge, but i always have the optimism that innovation and technology will change the nature of the problem before it gets to a tipping point - thereby creating a new set of problems to challenge us.  Never underestimate human ingenuity  And now i must put my innovative head on, and get to those salt mines and solve some tricky conundrums

One more day, and then i get my first weekend in the garden for 3 weeks.  long list ....



04/07/2014 at 06:59

Ooops, missed the exit sign 

04/07/2014 at 07:05

Morning Snoodle  Morning Chicky 

04/07/2014 at 07:06

Lol chicky!   So often I write answering a particular post and by the time I pressed send there's been about a 100 posts!  I blame iPad corrective text which is so bad actually makes everything 10 times longer to type.

All the best for today, Clari.  

Off to shower.....

04/07/2014 at 07:07

Good morning Dove & Woody and all to come

Sunny 17c and breezy here, with rain expected this afternoon.

I think our hedgehog has gone on holiday, no evidence for a week now.

Plenty to do in the garden and a phone call to EON to make for Mum as the StayWarm scheme is finishing and she says they want to increase her monthly payment by a silly amount. Think I'd better see the letter before getting all hot under the collar 

04/07/2014 at 07:08

Hi Snoddle & Chicky.