How about a photo of yours wakeshine. There are several species and varieties, all with different habits, height and spread.
Which rudbeckia is that Mr J?
If you'd posted that for ID I would have said helianthus.
I've had at least 3 species of perennial rudbeckia plus those that are grown as annuals. I don't think I've got any now
I won't be getting more, There are more reliable yellow daisy flowers.
It does look like a painting
Perennial, quite deep rooted.
Mallow, lovely plant
I keep hoping. July seems to be carrying on as before